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* Products  
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  [AI-Powered Network Security Platform](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security?ts=markdown)
  
  * [AI Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/precision-ai-security/secure-ai-by-design?ts=markdown)
  
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  * [Cloud Delivered Security Services](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/security-subscriptions?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Advanced Threat Prevention](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/advanced-threat-prevention?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Advanced URL Filtering](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/advanced-url-filtering?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Advanced WildFire](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/advanced-wildfire?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Advanced DNS Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/advanced-dns-security?ts=markdown)
  
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  * [OT Device Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/ot-device-security?ts=markdown)
  
  * [SaaS Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/sase/saas-security?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Next-Generation Firewalls](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/next-generation-firewall?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Hardware Firewalls](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/hardware-firewall-innovations?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Software Firewalls](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/software-firewalls?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Strata Cloud Manager](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/strata-cloud-manager?ts=markdown)
  
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  * [PAN-OS](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/pan-os?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Panorama](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/panorama?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Secure Access Service Edge](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/sase?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Prisma SASE](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/sase?ts=markdown)
  
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  * [Enterprise DLP](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/sase/enterprise-data-loss-prevention?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Prisma Access](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/sase/access?ts=markdown)
  
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  * [Remote Browser Isolation](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/sase/remote-browser-isolation?ts=markdown)
  
  * [SaaS Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/sase/saas-security?ts=markdown)  
    [AI-Driven Security Operations Platform](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cloud Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cortex Cloud](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Application Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/application-security?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cloud Posture Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/cloud-posture-security?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cloud Runtime Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/runtime-security?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Prisma Cloud](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/prisma/cloud?ts=markdown)
  
  * [AI-Driven SOC](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cortex XSIAM](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cortex-xsiam?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cortex XDR](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cortex-xdr?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cortex AgentiX](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/agentix?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cortex XSOAR](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cortex-xsoar?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cortex Exposure Management](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/exposure-management?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cortex Xpanse](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cortex-xpanse?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cortex Advanced Email Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/advanced-email-security?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Unit 42 Managed Detection \& Response](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/managed-detection-and-response?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Unit 42 Managed XSIAM](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/managed-xsiam?ts=markdown)  
    [![](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/content/dam/pan/en_US/images/cyberark/Seamless_IDs_small.jpg)  
    Identity Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/identity-security?ts=markdown)

* Solutions  
  ![black arrow pointing left to go back to main navigation](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/etc/clientlibs/clean/imgs/arrow-right-black.svg) Solutions  
  Secure AI by Design
  
  * [Secure AI Ecosystem](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/prisma/prisma-ai-runtime-security?ts=markdown)
  * [Secure GenAI Usage](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/sase/ai-access-security?ts=markdown)  
    Network Security
  * [Cloud Network Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/software-firewalls?ts=markdown)
  * [Data Center Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/data-center?ts=markdown)
  * [DNS Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/advanced-dns-security?ts=markdown)
  * [Intrusion Detection and Prevention](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/advanced-threat-prevention?ts=markdown)
  * [Device Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/device-security?ts=markdown)
  * [OT Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/ot-security-solution?ts=markdown)
  * [5G Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/5g-security?ts=markdown)
  * [Secure All Apps, Users and Locations](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/sase/secure-users-data-apps-devices?ts=markdown)
  * [Secure Branch Transformation](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/sase/secure-branch-transformation?ts=markdown)
  * [Secure Work on Any Device](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/sase/secure-work-on-any-device?ts=markdown)
  * [VPN Replacement](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/sase/vpn-replacement-for-secure-remote-access?ts=markdown)
  * [Web \& Phishing Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/advanced-url-filtering?ts=markdown)  
    Cloud Security
  * [Application Security Posture Management (ASPM)](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/application-security-posture-management?ts=markdown)
  * [Software Supply Chain Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/software-supply-chain-security?ts=markdown)
  * [Code Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/code-security?ts=markdown)
  * [Cloud Security Posture Management (CSPM)](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/cloud-security-posture-management?ts=markdown)
  * [Cloud Infrastructure Entitlement Management (CIEM)](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/cloud-infrastructure-entitlement-management?ts=markdown)
  * [Data Security Posture Management (DSPM)](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/data-security-posture-management?ts=markdown)
  * [AI Security Posture Management (AI-SPM)](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/ai-security-posture-management?ts=markdown)
  * [Cloud Detection \& Response](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud-detection-and-response?ts=markdown)
  * [Cloud Workload Protection (CWP)](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/cloud-workload-protection?ts=markdown)
  * [Web Application \& API Security (WAAS)](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/web-app-api-security?ts=markdown)  
    Security Operations
  * [Cloud Detection \& Response](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud-detection-and-response?ts=markdown)
  * [Security Information and Event Management](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/modernize-siem?ts=markdown)
  * [Network Security Automation](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/network-security-automation?ts=markdown)
  * [Incident Case Management](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/incident-case-management?ts=markdown)
  * [SOC Automation](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/security-operations-automation?ts=markdown)
  * [Threat Intel Management](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/threat-intel-management?ts=markdown)
  * [Managed Detection \& Response](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/managed-detection-and-response?ts=markdown)
  * [Attack Surface Management](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cortex-xpanse/attack-surface-management?ts=markdown)
  * [Compliance Management](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cortex-xpanse/compliance-management?ts=markdown)
  * [Internet Operations Management](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cortex-xpanse/internet-operations-management?ts=markdown)
  * [Extended Data Lake (XDL)](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cortex-xdl?ts=markdown)
  * [Agentic Assistant](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cortex-agentic-assistant?ts=markdown)  
    Endpoint Security
  * [Endpoint Protection](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/endpoint-protection?ts=markdown)
  * [Extended Detection \& Response](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/detection-and-response?ts=markdown)
  * [Ransomware Protection](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/ransomware-protection?ts=markdown)
  * [Digital Forensics](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/digital-forensics?ts=markdown)  
    [Industries](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/industry?ts=markdown)
  * [Public Sector](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/industry/public-sector?ts=markdown)
  * [Financial Services](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/industry/financial-services?ts=markdown)
  * [Manufacturing](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/industry/manufacturing?ts=markdown)
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  * [Small \& Medium Business Solutions](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/industry/small-medium-business-portfolio?ts=markdown)  
    [![](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/content/dam/pan/en_US/images/cyberark/Seamless_IDs_small.jpg)  
    Identity Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/identity-security?ts=markdown)

* Services  
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  [Threat Intel and Incident Response Services](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Assess](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess?ts=markdown)
  
  * [AI Security Assessment](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/ai-security-assessment?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Attack Surface Assessment](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/attack-surface-assessment?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Breach Readiness Review](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/breach-readiness-review?ts=markdown)
  
  * [BEC Readiness Assessment](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/bec-readiness-assessment?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cloud Security Assessment](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/cloud-security-assessment?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Compromise Assessment](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/compromise-assessment?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cyber Risk Assessment](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/cyber-risk-assessment?ts=markdown)
  
  * [M\&A Cyber Due Diligence](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/mergers-acquisitions-cyber-due-diligence?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Penetration Testing](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/penetration-testing?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Purple Team Exercises](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/purple-teaming?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Ransomware Readiness Assessment](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/ransomware-readiness-assessment?ts=markdown)
  
  * [SOC Assessment](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/soc-assessment?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Supply Chain Risk Assessment](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/supply-chain-risk-assessment?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Tabletop Exercises](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/tabletop-exercise?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Unit 42 Retainer](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/retainer?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Respond](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/respond?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cloud Incident Response](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/respond/cloud-incident-response?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Digital Forensics](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/respond/digital-forensics?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Incident Response](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/respond/incident-response?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Managed Detection and Response](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/respond/managed-detection-response?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Managed Threat Hunting](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/respond/managed-threat-hunting?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Managed XSIAM](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/managed-xsiam?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Unit 42 Retainer](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/retainer?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Transform](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/transform?ts=markdown)
  
  * [IR Plan Development and Review](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/transform/incident-response-plan-development-review?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Security Program Design](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/transform/security-program-design?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Virtual CISO](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/transform/vciso?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Zero Trust Advisory](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/transform/zero-trust-advisory?ts=markdown)  
    [Global Customer Services](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/services?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Education \& Training](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/services/education?ts=markdown)
  
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  * [Support Services](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/services/solution-assurance?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Customer Success](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/services/customer-success?ts=markdown)  
    [![](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/etc/clientlibs/clean/imgs/logo-unit-42.svg)  
    UNIT 42 RETAINER
    Custom-built to fit your organization's needs, you can choose to allocate your retainer hours to any of our offerings, including proactive cyber risk management services. Learn how you can put the world-class Unit 42 Incident Response team on speed dial.
    Learn more](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/retainer?ts=markdown)

* Partners  
  ![black arrow pointing left to go back to main navigation](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/etc/clientlibs/clean/imgs/arrow-right-black.svg) Partners  
  NextWave Partners
  
  * [NextWave Partner Community](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/partners?ts=markdown)
  * [Cloud Service Providers](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/partners/nextwave-for-csp?ts=markdown)
  * [Global Systems Integrators](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/partners/nextwave-for-gsi?ts=markdown)
  * [Technology Partners](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/partners/technology-partners?ts=markdown)
  * [Service Providers](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/partners/service-providers?ts=markdown)
  * [Solution Providers](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/partners/nextwave-solution-providers?ts=markdown)
  * [Managed Security Service Providers](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/partners/managed-security-service-providers?ts=markdown)
  * [XMDR Partners](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/partners/managed-security-service-providers/xmdr?ts=markdown)  
    Take Action
  * [Portal Login](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/partners/nextwave-partner-portal?ts=markdown)
  * [Managed Services Program](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/partners/managed-security-services-provider-program?ts=markdown)
  * [Become a Partner](https://paloaltonetworks.my.site.com/NextWavePartnerProgram/s/partnerregistration?type=becomepartner)
  * [Request Access](https://paloaltonetworks.my.site.com/NextWavePartnerProgram/s/partnerregistration?type=requestaccess)
  * [Find a Partner](https://paloaltonetworks.my.site.com/NextWavePartnerProgram/s/partnerlocator)  
    [CYBERFORCE
    CYBERFORCE represents the top 1% of partner engineers trusted for their security expertise.
    Learn more](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cyberforce?ts=markdown)

* Company  
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  Palo Alto Networks
  
  * [About Us](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/about-us?ts=markdown)
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  * [Ethics \& Compliance](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/company/ethics-and-compliance?ts=markdown)
  * [Corporate Responsibility](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/about-us/corporate-responsibility?ts=markdown)
  * [Military \& Veterans](https://jobs.paloaltonetworks.com/military)  
    [Why Palo Alto Networks?](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/why-paloaltonetworks?ts=markdown)
  * [Precision AI Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/precision-ai-security?ts=markdown)
  * [Our Platform Approach](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/why-paloaltonetworks/platformization?ts=markdown)
  * [Accelerate Your Cybersecurity Transformation](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/why-paloaltonetworks/nam-cxo-portfolio?ts=markdown)
  * [Awards \& Recognition](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/about-us/awards?ts=markdown)
  * [Customer Stories](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/customers?ts=markdown)
  * [Global Certifications](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/legal-notices/trust-center/compliance?ts=markdown)
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    Careers
  * [Overview](https://jobs.paloaltonetworks.com/)
  * [Culture \& Benefits](https://jobs.paloaltonetworks.com/en/culture/)  
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    Read more](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/company/press/2021/palo-alto-networks-secures-top-ranking-on-newsweek-s-most-loved-workplaces-list-for-2021?ts=markdown)

* More  
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  Resources
  
  * [Blog](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/blog/?ts=markdown)
  * [Unit 42 Threat Research](https://unit42.paloaltonetworks.com/)
  * [Communities](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/communities?ts=markdown)
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  * [Tech Insider](https://techinsider.paloaltonetworks.com/)
  * [Knowledge Base](https://knowledgebase.paloaltonetworks.com/)
  * [Palo Alto Networks TV](https://tv.paloaltonetworks.com/)
  * [Perspectives of Leaders](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/perspectives/?ts=markdown)
  * [Cyber Perspectives Magazine](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cybersecurity-perspectives/cyber-perspectives-magazine?ts=markdown)
  * [Regional Cloud Locations](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/products/regional-cloud-locations?ts=markdown)
  * [Tech Docs](https://docs.paloaltonetworks.com/)
  * [Security Posture Assessment](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/security-posture-assessment?ts=markdown)
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# Threat Vector | A Hacker's Insights on Your Privacy

Jun 05, 2025  
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Threat Vector | A Hacker's Insights on Your Privacy  
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In this episode of Threat Vector, host David Moulton talks with Arjun Bhatnagar, CEO of Cloaked, about why protecting your digital privacy is more urgent than ever. From building better cybersecurity habits to understanding the hidden risks in everyday apps, Arjun shares practical advice that listeners can use immediately. Learn how personal data is collected, how data breaches impact you directly, and why security posture matters in a hyper-connected world. This conversation offers a clear path for protecting your personal information while using today's technology. Stay secure and informed in an AI-driven future.

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*Protect yourself from the evolving threat landscape -- [more episodes of Threat Vector are a click away](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/podcasts/threat-vector)*

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**Transcript**

\[ Music \]

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Don't put your phone number or email on that free $10 promotion coupon, because that's why that runs - even if you don't buy the product, that's how they find you everywhere else, and they keep retargeting you, because you gave them the one piece of data they need to find you anywhere. \[ Music \]

**David Moulton**: Welcome to "Threat Vector," the Palo Alto Networks podcast where we discuss pressing cybersecurity threats and resilience, and uncover insights into the latest industry trends. I'm your host, David Moulton, senior director of thought leadership for Unit 42. \[ Music \] Today's guest is Arjun Bhatnagar, cofounder and CEO of Cloaked, a company dedicated to helping individuals protect their privacy online and in real life. As a Forbes "30 Under 30" honoree, Arjun has a deep background in entrepreneurship, web development, and cybersecurity innovation. In our conversation, Arjun shares the personal story of how building an AI to manage his own health during the pandemic sparked a new mission to help people take back control of their personal information. We dig into the real risks behind the apps we use every day, the true cost of public wi-fi, and why change simple behaviors can dramatically improve cybersecurity posture. This episode is packed with practical tips and fresh perspectives for anyone who wants to be safer online, whether you're managing passwords, ghosting on social media, or navigating today's AI-driven world. \[ Music \] Arjun, you've been developing and hacking since you were, what, 10 years old, and then it was, like, the pandemic, where your interest in or your journey to privacy really took off, thanks to this, like, AI data box that you've built for your own health. Can you take me back to that moment and walk us through how that experience sparked the idea for Cloaked?

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Absolutely, and I'm excited to talk about it. It's been an interesting journey for me. Learning about privacy - I've always been privacy-centric, but that moment really clarified for me what I really wanted to do. So back in 2020, I was really interested in my own data. What does my data look like, where does it live, what's going on with it -

**David Moulton**: Mm hmm.

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Because I wanted to see if there's a way to correlate different things about me to make me feel better, understand what - what can I do better to ultimately be happier, or minimize issues, or kind of keep track of things in my own health that I should pay attention to. So, I ended up getting a Mac mini, putting it in my apartment, and I wrote integrations into everything about myself. Basic stuff from my Google Calendar, my Facebook data. I hacked iMessage, my Google Calendar, my health data, my eating data, my banking data, my GPS data, movement data. Everything about we I put in this box, and in that box, as it's pulling everything, I started writing some crude models to start analyzing this data and telling me what's going on, what can I do about it, and can you help me take some actions. And without me even realizing it, very quickly it started doing things. It said, hey, I noticed you missed your workout yesterday. Do 15 pushups between these two meetings. Based on my spending habits, it said, let's cut back on the alcohol and the Chinese food. But it hit me in the face one day, I went to lunch with somebody and I put my phone down. End of lunch, I picked up my phone and realized my really crude AI had a full conversation with my then-girlfriend. It told her, I love you, it sent her memes, and it did the entire conversation while I was eating, and I picked up my phone and realized, holy cow, this is crazy, but I realized in that moment that I didn't own any of my own data. And two, that we're headed into some AI future. It's going to be important to figure out what data ownership, my privacy means, because if I can do this in-my-backyard type of thing well, when AI and big tech gets into AI and my personal data, it's going to be crazy.

**David Moulton**: Let's get into a conversation around digital footprints. You know, we often hear about these big data breaches. How does that data breach at a megacorporation affect our everyday online activity, and what do we do with this data trail that's out there about us?

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: It's always the big question. I'm glad we're, like, starting on the data footprint, because I think it's - when we look at ourselves from past, present, and future. And looking at the data breach in the past is like, well, what do I do about it, or what do I think about it? One, talking about the data breach. As individuals, we should be concerned. I think I had this kind of big moment unpacking data breaches when I saw the Park app. I don't know if you've used that before, but for parking your car in different places, they - they had a big breach, and I didn't realize, and the exposure letter, it was really funny. It said, so this is the details of the breach. Here's what was compromised. Your name, your address, your license, the make and model of your car, your interest, your birthday, your habits. And I was like, where are you getting - where - how is that? And then at the very - the big part of the email, which was not in small font, don't worry, your password is safe. That wasn't compromised. And I was like, yeah, but everything about me was taken, including my social or whatever was all part of this parking app. And it was really that eye opener, is that we - we look at it as, like, oh, my password is safe, but really, that data is being aggregated, stolen, shared, and we say it's those good actors and bad actors. I wouldn't say every company's bad for collecting data, but whether it's good or if a company is quietly tracking you, it can either be stolen or aggregated. It does come back to bite us, and it bites us in a few different ways. It's either visceral, we see fraud incidents, people try to compromise our identity, it comes in to the impacts to you and your family, or people you're connected to, they actually see either more target attempts, so all around, kind of your security posture. But then your data's also used to weaponize against you. You start seeing targeted advertising, pricing manipulation, habits, profiles that suddenly, and I don't want to get too philosophical, change the way you think. And so, either - and I always tell people, like, why do I care? Well, one, you can be compromised. Your family can be compromised, and it can be even a physical threat to you. Two, it can be an actual financial impact. Products know that A, if I know this person is willing to spend more, I'm just going to charge them more. And the last part is, you are being emotionally and mentally manipulated through your data. And whether you want it or not, it's something you should wrestle with, but everyone's vying to. Before, old-school advertising was, let's put a big billboard and feel good about drinking a Coca Cola. But now it's that, well, I'm going to influence you to think about Coca Cola, and I'm going to make sure that it's subtly implanted your brain, "Inception" style, and then I'm going to force you toward that path. And this is being used to - for politics as well as purchasing. And I think these breaches - breaches are not, yes, they're a problem. They reveal a bigger problem, which is that everybody has everything about you.

**David Moulton**: So Arjun, I want to go back on something real quick here. You said security posture -

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Yeah.

**David Moulton**: And I just want to make sure that, for the folks who don't spend -

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Yeah.

**David Moulton**: Every - every moment thinking about cybersecurity. What is cybersecurity posture?

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Absolutely. I'm glad you called me out. I try to avoid the specific jargon, but it does come out. Security posture, or that definition you'll hear from security individuals, is the way you conduct yourselves to keep yourself safe, the people around you safe, and your habits in the security world that you are - you are following or implementing. So for example, I - there's technology in security posture, and like how people can secure their servers and what not, but for us as people, it's the way we act. So I think about the way I think about my passwords, how I communicate and share information between me and family, the way that I click in open links, the way that I view and share files. It's the actions I take and what habits that I've created to minimize risk to myself and my family.

**David Moulton**: Yeah, that makes sense.

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: And that's the security posture work.

**David Moulton**: Yeah. So let's talk about some of those apps on your phone. You mentioned Parked, and I could see how your parking data, that's your physical location over time, that could be really dangerous. You know, but let's talk about some of the apps on your phone. They're asking for things like location, contact, they want to use your microphone, your camera. What should we think about before we hit that Allow button?

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Yeah, so this is - when people say what is, like, a simple thing I can do as an individual? I come into this starting at this specific point about permissions. Start with no. The answer I always say is start with no, and start to use the app, and give selective permissions as you use it. That's, like, even if people are like, oh, I just you don't have TikTok. Except I do have TikTok. I don't look at it that often, but I have it. But I've denied everything. I even made the account I used cloaked, so everything's cloaked on it, but the idea is that I start with no, and no matter how much TikTok keeps asking for all my contacts, I say, I don't need to give you all my contacts. I don't care to give you all my contacts. And I think that's a simple way to think about it, and as you use a feature, give permissions. And then when you're using a permission, I recommend, don't do Allow All, do Allow Selective, and pick and choose what you want to share with an app or a website you're using.

**David Moulton**: So that takes us back to that behavior that you're talking to, the security posture idea, where you can say, one of the first things that you could do is stop saying Allow or Allow All when an app asks, but you could also go back in and change those permissions in a lot of the apps that you have today.

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Absolutely.

**David Moulton**: So that you're not constantly leaking out data in a way that you maybe didn't expect because it's - it's unclear. When it's saying, I want to use your camera, I want to use your location, what does it need that for? What is it - what is it really - or who is it sharing that with? You don't know, and if you turn that off, that can start to shrink that exposure that you're - that you're facing today.

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Absolutely. And you'll see the apps respond. They show you, I can't do this feature, or I can't do this thing. So at least you'll know what these things are tied to.

**David Moulton**: Well, it wouldn't be a safe summer type of podcast if we didn't talk about passwords and the headache of passwords.

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Yeah.

**David Moulton**: We know we need them, but I know a lot of people struggle to manage them. I've used a password manager for years. I've tried to insist on that within the - the area where I'm the - the resident geek, and as far out as I can.

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Yeah.

**David Moulton**: But just creating strong passwords isn't enough. You know, we need unique ones, we need different ones for different accounts. Can you talk about why it's worth the hassle to have unique passwords?

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Yes.

**David Moulton**: And why a password manager may be the right choice for a lot of folks who have maybe resisted it?

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Absolutely. So I'll break this into a few different points around the password headaches. I totally get it, and I'm a little contrarian here, where there are security professionals who will just say, you need complex individualized passwords to every service, full stop. But the problem is when you make that statement, it's a big leap from where people are today. So what I'd say is that, how do you progressively get better? Link your passwords, I'd say. People have heard of password managers, and it's definitely a great tool. I'll get to them in a second. The real part is, like, how do you think about passwords? One, we want to create the distinct nature, and I'll explain why that's important. When you have a password, if someone wants to compromise an individual and hack into their account, et cetera, they're not going to necessarily try to hack into your bank account, your JP Morgan account, et cetera, because that account's probably pretty secure, they get a lot of incidents. However, when you do use the same password, I'm going to go compromise the jeans shop you bought jeans from recently, because their security might be weak, and they're not investing in a massive security team to make sure your information is safe. But somebody might go find a compromise there, or they might have been already compromised, and if you use the same password, well, somebody's just going to use that to then get into your bank account. And this is where password reuse is a big problem, because I'm just going to find the weakest website that has not the best security, find that compromise, and then use that to work my way to your Gmail, or your bank account. Primarily your - your Gmail or your Verizon or phone bill company, because I can use those to compromise other accounts, and it becomes a chain of attacks. So that's why password reuse is bad, but then what do you do about it? I'd say, coming back to habits, having a habit around - about passwords is really important. So what I would say is, first off, thinking about the different types of passwords you want to have. That's the first way of approaching this. So for example, my computer password is unique to my computer, and I do not use that anywhere else. So fundamentally, and I do not use it anywhere online. Because it's offline on my computer, and if you get into my computer, you've basically gotten the keys to the kingdom there. So, that one is unique. I do then say, for my bank account, my Gmail, my Apple, like, these things have distinct passwords, and I - I'll tell you about kind of ways to think about passwords in a second, but that - that information of, like, these are very sensitive things that can compromise me. I make those distinct. And then for - as, again, to other accounts, I just create password habits to make them distinct - to make them useful. Now, I use a password manager. Cloaked is my password manager, but I - I'd say that what I have always done is just following these rules. Coming into making a password. When people realize that it's - it's a famous comic that your password is teaching you 12 characters, a symbol, and all that stuff. That's not a best password. A long password is actually much safer than a short one with a bunch of random symbols in it. You adding an extra $ sign to your password is not making it that much harder for someone to crack it. It's really - the length of it is what makes it really hard. So in front of me, like, I'm looking at things like, I've got a napkin, a remote, a marker, and a cable. Napkin, remote, marker, cable, 1, exclamation point - great password. It's easy to remember, and it's going to fit all the criteria, and every hard to crack. And it should be - if you make it easy to remember, but then also harder to compromise. That's how I do my passwords, is I kind of have a - a passphrase -

**David Moulton**: I like it.

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Or a system of things that you can remember, but they're really hard to compromise.

**David Moulton**: So liked that idea -

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: \[Overtalking\], yeah, yeah, go ahead.

**David Moulton**: You called it a passphrase. I end up using song lyrics, so you know, I'll find something that's the - the earworm, and then I add the - a little bit of complexity through odd characters, and/or, you know, a - a repeatable term that I'm like, yeah, I like that for that website. As we're out and about and looking for free wi-fi or better connection than we can get on a mobile device, a lot of times popping into a coffee shop, what should people know about those wi-fi networks that are out there, that are public, and what should they be looking for, or maybe looking to not do on those networks.

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Yeah, this is an interesting thing that's very - I feel like it's intentionally confusing, between VPN companies, they tend just to sell VPN. So I think to demystify this from the wi-fi, when you are on any wi-fi network, whether it's got a password or not, all of your internet's traffic is flowing over that router. So an admin or other computers in that network can snoop and watch that traffic. If you are using HTTPS, you can't really figure out what's going on, but if you are sending a file to someone in the network, you might be emailing something, you can still figure out the traffic that people are doing. Like, what websites are people browsing on? You can figure that out. You can try to build a profile on someone based on the websites they're using. So I'd say to think about wi-fi networks as that, it's okay to be on a public wi-fi network, and it's okay to not have a VPN running when you're doing a public wi-fi network. A VPN is a good idea, but I'll say, a VPN is not your silver bullet. The things I'd say is when you're on a public wi-fi network in an airport or coffee shop, be careful of signing into sensitive accounts or doing a lot of things that you might be nervous around, or - if you're in a coffee shop and you want to wire a lot of money, just maybe do it when you get home. When you are trying to send a very sensitive document, you might be uploading it to sketchy websites for things like that, I'd be careful of doing that traffic - doing that on - on a public wi-fi network, because people can see where you're - you're doing things. So I'd be cautious about the websites you visit, is the first principle. The files you're sharing, second principle. And the core thing to look at at a public wi-fi network, this is a common form of attack, is making sure you're joining the right network. So, people often will spoof wi-fi networks. You'll say, like, free wi-fi or something like that, and you're connected to somebody's laptop. And so maybe everything you're doing, and this is why it's very scary, is that you could go to a website on a network, and it might look like Google, because you're on somebody else's router, and when you type in your login information, it will fail, but you've now given up your password, your email address, everything. \[ Music \] And so kind of going back to that security posture, those behaviors, those choices that you make. When you're out in public, adding different protections, VPN, good, being careful about which networks you are willing to attach to, and then maybe limiting the types of things that you do on a public network at the airport or the - the coffee shop. All of those things can reduce the likelihood that you're going to have a very bad day. Exactly. It's a - I think it - the posture keeps coming back, is that there are simple habits that you instill, and it follows you wherever you go, it reduces your ability to be compromised or information to be taken.

**David Moulton**: A lot of people like to share in social media. It's a place that begs for us to say everything, to share everything. Talk to me about why you should think twice about what we post, even if we think our settings are private?

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Yeah. I think this is now coming back very visibly with AI, but everything that we're putting out there lives forever, and now when we put it out there, people are using it to train AI models, and it's being aggregated. So the first thing is that everybody wants you to share more, but being - we want to be careful, because that information - we do not know how it comes back to target, attack, or use to infer things about us. And I've always pointed out, even we have a team member here of the company -

**David Moulton**: Yeah.

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Who had a new - their first child, and because they worked at Cloaked, they're like, Arjun, I'm - I'm nervous about posting baby photos. What - what's actually the best way? There are some models that you can use online that confuse the picture for AI, where it might - AI might think it's a picture of, like, a shrimp - a piece of shrimp, but it's actually a baby photo.

**David Moulton**: \[Laughter\].

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: You can - you can change the pixels. So what I recommend is, at least being conscious before you're posting is a very big win. Like, that, around that this information will be used, even with privacy settings on, in some way or another. So starting there, and then actually maybe not posting something, if you realize, like, maybe I shouldn't put that out there.

**David Moulton**: Let me show my ignorance a little bit. I have always taken the mindset that if I pay for something, then I'm the customer and I have a bit more control. If something is free, then I am not the customer, I'm the product. And I've used iCloud as a place to share privately, photos with family members, but I've not posted photos to social media that I'm not completely comfortable with being out there. Is that a good mindset, or have I made a mistake?

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: I think that as a principle is a good way to look at things, to start to organize the - the noise. I wouldn't say it's the best, like 100% answer, but you are right. I look at this in my lens, what is this company motivated by? Like, when I look at all of the different, let's say, call them emails or not, big tech and all these companies, and looking at the data, I say what's the - the least evil of them all? I look at motivations. So Apple, right, why you trust iCloud? I also trust Apple. It's because, they are gobbling up data. They're doing a bunch of things, but they're self-serving. Their goal is to kind of sell data to themselves, use the data themselves. They're not looking to put the data out there. They want to sell me another iPhone. So I'm like, well, fine. It's within the same house. Whereas everyone else, they're putting data out there. So I think the idea is that you are - when you are paying for something, you are least - there's a good chance that your data is not being actively resold. However, that may not be fully true, and then if it's free, you can absolutely bet that your data is everywhere. So I would say, like -

**David Moulton**: Okay.

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Knowing it's free, you should be very, very cautious about what you're putting in that product.

**David Moulton**: I think it's helpful to know that there's a sorting principle, but it's not an absolute safe, if you're paying for it. Even then there's reuse. At least it's a - it's a start. Something that I promised I would bring up, my family's always asking about, like, the creepy ads that feel like they follow you around, right? You look at a new shoe, and then suddenly that shoe ad's everywhere. Mentally I understand what's happening with retargeting. I've been in marketing long enough and studied this, but can you talk to our audience a little bit about what's happening behind the scenes, and then why should they care, or maybe why should they not care?

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Yes. I think that - this is always the - the fun one, because we all kind of feel it, but don't know what to point at. So what's happening behind the scenes is that, one, it's not listening. That's one, people are like, oh, am I being listened to by a microphone? There's some of that that people kind of say might be happening, but reality, what's really happening is that you are being retargeted and tracked based on either inputs that you provide, like you tap an ad, or if it's an app, a piece of content. They're tracking that. But it could also be you are in vicinity of other people who did the same thing. So, that's really what happens, is that if you are with somebody who is also interested in your favorite TV show, who might be interested in - in learning about blue sweaters, or might also have a dog, like, they're tapping these things, and then you are sharing an IP address. You are sharing - you might have some connection between your contacts. You gave the same app your contact permissions. They're using data to then join you together and then serve you ads wherever you are. So it's your IP address, your physical address, your contacts, your device settings, and then the apps you're using, these are used to join your information to then make an ad go everywhere. And the moment they've found you, the ad will follow you everywhere.

**David Moulton**: Yep.

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: So it just becomes a quick journey of finding you. So that's why it happens, and I'm seeing it constantly, and we know that old - the old story of Target knew about that woman that was pregnant before the woman did. Like, it's - it is that - that's that feeling where you are being tracked. I think the - the thing is, I - going forward, one, these things do tend to age off. As you've said, you've spent some time in marketing and a lot of these things. Nobody wants stale data. So people want new information, new things, and the best thing I talk about is data poisoning. So what can you do about this? So first, easy thing, don't tap an ad when you see it. Maybe go on an incognito window, or use, like, a - a different service. I recommend also some browsers that remove the tracking from these. I use, personally, the Brave browser. Not here to an ad on Brave, but there's different browsers that help remove the tracking side of things, but don't click it. Go somewhere else. Find the website and then go through the journey. That way they don't see that. But then the other thing is that, don't put your phone number or email on that free $10 promotion coupon, because that's why that runs - even if you don't buy the product, because that's how they find you everywhere else, and they keep retargeting you, because you gave them the one piece of data they need to find you anywhere. So, I say with data poisoning, is using virtual information, like a secondary virtual email or phone number, and these things, such that it doesn't track you. I also recommend - I always use my outdated address from, like, four addresses ago, because technically if you research me, you might say oh, I guess Arjun does live there, but actually I don't. So then it starts to get confusing for somebody trying to track you, and it's not even a - it's not a human. It's often a - an algorithm or system that's tracking you across the point. So using outdated information, alternative information, and ultimately not tapping. I do pay for a lot of things to not see ads, because I hate - I hate ads too.

**David Moulton**: Pro tip for anyone out there that's paying for their iCloud service, it will actually do a thing called hide my email. It's not free, it's part of the, like, I think the first tier, and it creates the fake email address for you, on the fly, and I like that as - as something that really does help me as I'm tempted, sometimes, to try things out, right? But it's not tied back to my, at this point, completely polluted personal emails that I've had for ages, but it is starting to make things a little bit better. You know, going forward, I can then turn those email addresses off, and then the bounces start to occur, and I notice that the ads don't hit my email, and the things that I was looking at don't show up when I'm online.

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Yes.

**David Moulton**: So some of that poisoning, some of that intentionality showing up, and you know, maybe a note to marketers out there that are really leaning into this, maybe just, like, give it a rest, right? We've - we've hit a critical point where people don't need more. Yeah, let's back out and talk about big picture for a second. Beyond just protecting our accounts, why does digital privacy actually matter in our everyday lives?

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Yeah. So, big picture, and tying it back to what you just said about the Apple hide my email, so one, it all ties back to big picture. We - so at Cloaked, we do that. We create phone numbers, emails, virtual in the exact same way for that problem, because the big picture problem that we want to communicate, or if you have to share something, that your single datapoint, for example your phone number, can leak everything about you. Email, address, your family members, your social security number, your credit card, your passwords, can be all found from just one datapoint, your phone number. And that's because we just give this out so readily, so easily, and by continuously giving it out, it reinforces that datapoint, that that is my valid piece of data to keep tracking me. And the - the big picture to think about is that, whether it's for good or bad, companies are collecting information, and we can't just fix it by hoping the companies get better. We have to think about ourselves, and protect ourselves, and as AI becomes a big threat, what are you doing to feel safe in the age of AI, and what are the tools you're leveraging, and the goals and tools make it easier, such that you can feel comfortable browsing online, interacting with AI, and trying everything you want to do, because it's - the government and companies aren't going to fully change. It's up to use to kind of leverage the right tools.

**David Moulton**: At "South By" in Austin, you gave a demonstration, where you asked the crowd to call a phone number that's part of Cloaked. And I have to say it was the best demonstration of software I'd seen, because I lost count of the number of gasps from the crowd, as people were listening to the message that came up, and they were hearing their name, they were hearing most of their social security number, they were hearing information about themselves, and I think it was really, back to our opening conversation about how being able to see your data can change your behavior, in this case, you can hear what data is publicly available about you just from your phone number. I believe people left that demonstration with a different mindset about what they're going to give away, and what they wanted to do to feel comfortable to operate in the modern world, where data is just flowing out, and if they wanted to control their privacy. So, if you're out there and you're thinking, I've got to see what this demo is that Arjun gave, or Dave's talking about, that's on the website, and - and I got to say, I recommend going and giving it a try. It was - it was jaw-dropping, man.

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Well, I think this is - I'm kind of glad you appreciated it. The - the demo is really focusing on the point that we know our data's out there, but it's - we don't really understand the extent of how much that is. And we don't have any of this data. They and all these companies are aggregating and selling, but it's so easy to find it. And I don't know if I can share on this, or we can point to cloaked.com, but it's such a powerful tool because it's visceral. And I - we made it a phone number, because like hey, just call it. No - no information needed. You don't have to type anything. You feel it right then and there.

**David Moulton**: It's absolutely right. It was so simple, and yet so powerful. So we're about out of time, and I want to leave you with the final word. Imagine that every listener's going to be at the summer barbecue, and now they're the tech savvy friends. They've - they've listened to this conversation, they're ready to go. What advice would you give them give to their friends as they're standing around, enjoying a beautiful, you know, summer barbecue, and you know, they hear somebody say something, or somebody asks a question, and they can hop in and really help their friends or their family out?

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Yeah. I think - you - if we remind maybe 10 years ago, no one maybe would bring up privacy in a barbecue, but funny enough, it will come up, especially now. Maybe not in a formal, what is my digital privacy sense. But one thing I would share, if you're in a barbecue situation, and you're talking about it, and the topic comes up, is that we, and it's like, I would say to someone, did you know that really, anyone could get your social security number from your phone number? And people would say no, I don't believe you. Well, it's true. It's because we give the same information to the IRS that we give to Domino's. That phone number, for example, can easily tie your entire digital life, your family's life, everyone you're connected to, with just one datapoint. And that datapoint can be used to track, aggregate, target, or compromise you. And that's why, like, and I would say, we've already seen this at barbecues. Give that phone number a call. Give the Cloaked hotline a call. The number is the 855-752-5625, but that number can show you, in that instance, this is true. Anyone can find everything about you. Well, maybe we should do something about it.

**David Moulton**: Absolutely. And that's, you know, part of what we're trying to do is put this series together as, not our usual listeners, but our usual listeners on Threat Vector to ask their friends and their family to take, you know, one or two episodes and listen, and I wanted to have you in, because you have that - that privacy mindset, and it's more consumer to consumer, but I think privacy is human to human, right?

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Yes.

**David Moulton**: Like you deserve to have that, and I was excited when you accepted, and Arjun, thank you so much for such an awesome conversation today. I know I've got a couple of things I need to change. You know, back to that, if I pay for it, I'm probably okay, to being a little bit suspicious about that. But your insights on digital privacy have been really awesome, and I encourage anyone that's listening today to try out that - that phone number that Arjun just told you. And we'll have it in the show notes too, because I think it's really important. Yeah, Arjun, thanks for coming in. Really appreciate to have the conversation.

**Arjun Bhatnagar**: Of course. Thanks for having me. I really enjoyed the conversation today. \[ Music \]

**David Moulton**: If you like what you heard, please subscribe wherever you listen, and leave us a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify. Those reviews, and your feedback, really do help me understand what you want to hear about. If you want to reach out to me directly about the show, email me at threatvector@ paloaltonetworks.com. I want to thank our executive producer, Michael Heller, our content and production teams which include Kenne Miller, Joe Bettencourt, and Virginia Tran. Elliott Peltzman edits the show and mixes our audio. We'll be back next week. Unti then, stay secure, stay vigilant. Goodbye for now. \[ Music \]  
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