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    [AI-Driven Security Operations Platform](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cloud Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cortex Cloud](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Application Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/application-security?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cloud Posture Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/cloud-posture-security?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cloud Runtime Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/runtime-security?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Prisma Cloud](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/prisma/cloud?ts=markdown)
  
  * [AI-Driven SOC](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cortex XSIAM](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cortex-xsiam?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cortex XDR](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cortex-xdr?ts=markdown)
  
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  * [Cortex XSOAR](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cortex-xsoar?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cortex Exposure Management](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/exposure-management?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cortex Xpanse](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cortex-xpanse?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cortex Advanced Email Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/advanced-email-security?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Unit 42 Managed Detection \& Response](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/managed-detection-and-response?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Unit 42 Managed XSIAM](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/managed-xsiam?ts=markdown)

* Solutions  
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  Secure AI by Design
  
  * [Secure AI Ecosystem](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/prisma/prisma-ai-runtime-security?ts=markdown)
  * [Secure GenAI Usage](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/sase/ai-access-security?ts=markdown)  
    Network Security
  * [Cloud Network Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/software-firewalls?ts=markdown)
  * [Data Center Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/data-center?ts=markdown)
  * [DNS Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/advanced-dns-security?ts=markdown)
  * [Intrusion Detection and Prevention](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/advanced-threat-prevention?ts=markdown)
  * [Device Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/device-security?ts=markdown)
  * [OT Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/ot-security-solution?ts=markdown)
  * [5G Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/5g-security?ts=markdown)
  * [Secure All Apps, Users and Locations](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/sase/secure-users-data-apps-devices?ts=markdown)
  * [Secure Branch Transformation](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/sase/secure-branch-transformation?ts=markdown)
  * [Secure Work on Any Device](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/sase/secure-work-on-any-device?ts=markdown)
  * [VPN Replacement](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/sase/vpn-replacement-for-secure-remote-access?ts=markdown)
  * [Web \& Phishing Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/network-security/advanced-url-filtering?ts=markdown)  
    Cloud Security
  * [Application Security Posture Management (ASPM)](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/application-security-posture-management?ts=markdown)
  * [Software Supply Chain Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/software-supply-chain-security?ts=markdown)
  * [Code Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/code-security?ts=markdown)
  * [Cloud Security Posture Management (CSPM)](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/cloud-security-posture-management?ts=markdown)
  * [Cloud Infrastructure Entitlement Management (CIEM)](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/cloud-infrastructure-entitlement-management?ts=markdown)
  * [Data Security Posture Management (DSPM)](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/data-security-posture-management?ts=markdown)
  * [AI Security Posture Management (AI-SPM)](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/ai-security-posture-management?ts=markdown)
  * [Cloud Detection \& Response](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud-detection-and-response?ts=markdown)
  * [Cloud Workload Protection (CWP)](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/cloud-workload-protection?ts=markdown)
  * [Web Application \& API Security (WAAS)](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud/web-app-api-security?ts=markdown)  
    Security Operations
  * [Cloud Detection \& Response](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cloud-detection-and-response?ts=markdown)
  * [Security Information and Event Management](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/modernize-siem?ts=markdown)
  * [Network Security Automation](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/network-security-automation?ts=markdown)
  * [Incident Case Management](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/incident-case-management?ts=markdown)
  * [SOC Automation](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/security-operations-automation?ts=markdown)
  * [Threat Intel Management](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/threat-intel-management?ts=markdown)
  * [Managed Detection \& Response](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/managed-detection-and-response?ts=markdown)
  * [Attack Surface Management](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cortex-xpanse/attack-surface-management?ts=markdown)
  * [Compliance Management](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cortex-xpanse/compliance-management?ts=markdown)
  * [Internet Operations Management](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cortex-xpanse/internet-operations-management?ts=markdown)
  * [Extended Data Lake (XDL)](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cortex-xdl?ts=markdown)
  * [Agentic Assistant](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/cortex-agentic-assistant?ts=markdown)  
    Endpoint Security
  * [Endpoint Protection](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/endpoint-protection?ts=markdown)
  * [Extended Detection \& Response](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/detection-and-response?ts=markdown)
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  * [Small \& Medium Business Solutions](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/industry/small-medium-business-portfolio?ts=markdown)

* Services  
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  [Threat Intel and Incident Response Services](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Assess](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess?ts=markdown)
  
  * [AI Security Assessment](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/ai-security-assessment?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Attack Surface Assessment](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/attack-surface-assessment?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Breach Readiness Review](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/breach-readiness-review?ts=markdown)
  
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  * [Cloud Security Assessment](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/cloud-security-assessment?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Compromise Assessment](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/compromise-assessment?ts=markdown)
  
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  * [M\&A Cyber Due Diligence](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/mergers-acquisitions-cyber-due-diligence?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Penetration Testing](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/penetration-testing?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Purple Team Exercises](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/purple-teaming?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Ransomware Readiness Assessment](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/ransomware-readiness-assessment?ts=markdown)
  
  * [SOC Assessment](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/soc-assessment?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Supply Chain Risk Assessment](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/supply-chain-risk-assessment?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Tabletop Exercises](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/assess/tabletop-exercise?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Unit 42 Retainer](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/retainer?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Respond](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/respond?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Cloud Incident Response](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/respond/cloud-incident-response?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Digital Forensics](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/respond/digital-forensics?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Incident Response](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/respond/incident-response?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Managed Detection and Response](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/respond/managed-detection-response?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Managed Threat Hunting](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/respond/managed-threat-hunting?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Managed XSIAM](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cortex/managed-xsiam?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Unit 42 Retainer](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/retainer?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Transform](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/transform?ts=markdown)
  
  * [IR Plan Development and Review](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/transform/incident-response-plan-development-review?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Security Program Design](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/transform/security-program-design?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Virtual CISO](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/transform/vciso?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Zero Trust Advisory](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/unit42/transform/zero-trust-advisory?ts=markdown)  
    [Global Customer Services](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/services?ts=markdown)
  
  * [Education \& Training](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/services/education?ts=markdown)
  
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    UNIT 42 RETAINER
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* Partners  
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  * [Solution Providers](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/partners/nextwave-solution-providers?ts=markdown)
  * [Managed Security Service Providers](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/partners/managed-security-service-providers?ts=markdown)
  * [XMDR Partners](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/partners/managed-security-service-providers/xmdr?ts=markdown)  
    Take Action
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  * [Become a Partner](https://paloaltonetworks.my.site.com/NextWavePartnerProgram/s/partnerregistration?type=becomepartner)
  * [Request Access](https://paloaltonetworks.my.site.com/NextWavePartnerProgram/s/partnerregistration?type=requestaccess)
  * [Find a Partner](https://paloaltonetworks.my.site.com/NextWavePartnerProgram/s/partnerlocator)  
    [CYBERFORCE
    CYBERFORCE represents the top 1% of partner engineers trusted for their security expertise.
    Learn more](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cyberforce?ts=markdown)

* Company  
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  Palo Alto Networks
  
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  * [Precision AI Security](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/precision-ai-security?ts=markdown)
  * [Our Platform Approach](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/why-paloaltonetworks/platformization?ts=markdown)
  * [Accelerate Your Cybersecurity Transformation](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/why-paloaltonetworks/nam-cxo-portfolio?ts=markdown)
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    Careers
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    Read more](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/company/press/2021/palo-alto-networks-secures-top-ranking-on-newsweek-s-most-loved-workplaces-list-for-2021?ts=markdown)

* More  
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  * [Threat Vector Podcast](https://unit42.paloaltonetworks.com/unit-42-threat-vector-podcast/)
  * [Packet Pushers Podcasts](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/podcasts/packet-pusher?ts=markdown)  
    Connect
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# Threat Vector | Why Security Platformization Is the Future of Cyber Resilience

Mar 20, 2025  
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Why Security Platformization Is the Future of Cyber Resilience  
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Security platformization is transforming the way organizations defend against cyber threats. In this episode of Threat Vector, host [David Moulton](https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidrmoulton/) speaks with [Carlos Rivera](https://www.linkedin.com/in/riveracarlosj/), Senior Analyst at Forrester, about how unifying security capabilities strengthens cyber resilience.

They discuss the evolving role of enterprise firewalls, the impact of AI-driven security, and how Zero Trust continues to shape modern security strategies. Carlos shares insights from his extensive experience, offering practical advice for organizations navigating these critical changes. Tune in to learn how to make smarter security investments and prepare for the future of cybersecurity.

Resources

* [The Forrester Wave^™^ Enterprise Firewall Solutions, Q4 2024 Report](https://start.paloaltonetworks.com/forrester-wave-firewall-2024.html)
* [Capturing the cybersecurity dividend: how security platforms generate business value](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/resources/research/ibm-study-platforms-deliver-value?ts=markdown)
* [Top 10 Critical Findings for Considering Security Platformization in 2025](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/resources/research/IBM-IBV-platformization-report?ts=markdown)  
  Did you like this conversation? You should listen to episode 54, [Unlocking Cybersecurity ROI with Platformization](https://thecyberwire.com/podcasts/threat-vector/54/notes) next.

*** ** * ** ***

*Protect yourself from the evolving threat landscape - [more episodes of Threat Vector are a click away](https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/podcasts/threat-vector?ts=markdown)*

*** ** * ** ***

**Transcript**

\[ Music \]

**Carlos Rivera**: If there's any doubt in the investments that you have, squash those doubts. So, anything related to the enterprise firewalls or any other network security tools that are out there, they still matter. They still have an importance, and they still have a place within your -- your \[inaudible 00:00:19\] security. What needs to happen is that you need to go back and assess, "Are you actually leveraging these tools in the most effective and efficient manner?" and "How do you need to adapt to achieve those outcomes for Zero Trust, and reach those maturity levels that are necessary for you to -- to mature as an organization?" \[ Music \]

**David Moulton**: Welcome to "Threat Vector," the Palo Alto Network's podcast where we discuss pressing cybersecurity threats and resilience and uncover insights into the latest industry trends. I'm your host, David Moulton, Director of Thought Leadership for Unit 42. Today, we're going to take a closer look at one of the most critical shifts in security strategy: platformization. The security landscape has never been more complex. Hybrid environments, evolving threats, and the rapid adoption of AI are forcing organizations to rethink how they protect their data, networks, and users. This is where security platformization comes in. Unifying security tools into a more seamless AI powered approach to cyber resilience. To help us unpack what this means, I'm joined by Carlos Rivera, Senior Analyst at Forrester, who specializes in Zero Trust, enterprise firewalls and the future of network security. Carlos brings a wealth of experience from his time in the US Air Force, cybersecurity leadership roles, and now as a thought leader shaping how businesses approach Zero Trust strategies. We'll explore how enterprise firewalls are evolving beyond perimeter defense, the role of AI in security operations, and how organizations can balance platformization with best-in-class solutions. If you're wondering how to make smarter security investments, while keeping pace with modern threats, this episode is for you. \[ Music \] Carlos Rivera, welcome to "Threat Vector." Really excited to have you here today.

**Carlos Rivera**: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

**David Moulton**: Carlos, I looked at your LinkedIn background before we started our podcast today, and you've had this really fascinating career spanning the US Air Force, a couple of leadership roles in cybersecurity. Now you're with Forrester as a Senior Analyst. I'm curious, what drew you to cybersecurity all those years ago, and if you can give me your perspective on how things have evolved over the years? Yes, I mean, that's a good question. I think you might be surprised that cybersecurity wasn't initially at top of mind when I was in the Air Force. It was my career, but honestly, when I was going to school and -- and trying to complete my bachelor's degree, it was for aeronautical engineering, believe it or not. But my -- it was my wife, my then girlfriend, my now wife, that kind of rallied me in. She said, "Hey, you already work in a very promising career field. You're already receiving the -- the technical training that most people would dream of. Why not continue to pursue that -- that -- that field in -- of -- of professional study and things of that nature?" And I said, "You know what? That's -- that's a good point." And I decided to use kind of this shift gears and transitioning into a more studying for cybersecurity, specifically more on -- well, network security, network engineering. That was kind of where the background was, because my career in the Air Force, the position itself was considered a cyber transport technician, which was a Jack-of-all-trades, kind of master of none, situation. And we -- we -- we call ourselves that because we had to learn almost every role in -- in the IT field. That included network guys, networking admin or engineering, network architect, transport. So, we have to figure out satellite communications, bringing that in, encrypting it, decrypting it, splitting the signal from data and voice in distributing \[inaudible 00:04:15\] to the -- to the base of operation, supporting war fighters, but also sys admins, right? Typical stuff around that. So, we -- we kind of touched a little bit of everything, but we were never really a master of anything, if that makes sense? So, that was where the career kind of started, and I really want to continue to pursue more of focus on networking engineering and network security. And did that for about ten years. I was able to finish my bachelor's degree. Oh, excuse me, I got my associate's degree through the -- the Community College of the Air Force in -- in -- in computer information. Got out of the Air Force, \[inaudible 00:04:52\] as a contractor for about five years. But that was where I really got my exposure in -- in Zero Trust, right? But the company I was with at the time really started getting more interest in wanting to do more understanding research behind Zero Trust architecture. What does it mean for the industry? What does it mean for the company? And how do we take what we -- what with that -- that information security model promote applied internally for one, but then two, take what we've learned from applying that internally and take it back to our clients that we support in the -- in the federal space to help them with that journey. So, I did that for about two years, three years before joining Forrester and I was now -- now I'm here at Forrester continuing that responsibility, if you will, of getting an understanding of what organizations are struggling with when it comes to adopting Zero Trust, how to interpret the core principles and concepts that Zero Trust promotes, and to achieve those outcomes, and what are the tools and technologies out there that they can -- that can help them achieve those -- those outcomes. So, I guess my big take away here is keep listening to your wife. She has great advice.

**Carlos Rivera**: Trust me, I do. I do.

**David Moulton**: Yes, yes. You and me both, man. My -- my wife is the Ying to my Yang and fills in a lot of those gaps and biases that I've got. So, well, that's fascinating to think that you went into the Air Force with an aeronautical engineer view of things, saw an opportunity, was -- was -- had an opportunity pointed out to you and then went and learned as much as you could. What a -- what a great idea to take advantages or advantage of -- of -- of the opportunity in front of you. Carlos, you're the lead author on the Forrester Wave Enterprise Firewalls Solutions that's out, and in it you emphasize that enterprise firewalls have evolved beyond traditional perimeter security. Can you talk to me about how modern firewalls contribute to that Zero Trust strategy that you were alluding to earlier?

**Carlos Rivera**: Yes.

**David Moulton**: And what are some of the key innovations that have driven this shift?

**Carlos Rivera**: I mean, that's a great question. I think part of what I do as an analyst here at Forrester, I find that it's a responsibility for me is to kind of take -- try to look past those misconceptions and -- and try to grand -- bring some more ground understanding around those technologies and tools such as enterprise firewalls that an organization might find or believe that they are no longer viable or valuable controls that can be implemented, right? But the truth is, they still matter, but it's really an organization's responsibility to ultimately determine where these tools should be applying. You know, the what's the use case? What's the scope? Where does this tool fit ideally in our architecture for a long-term Zero Trust architectural goal? And so, what does it mean? It mean -- it may mean that you're reducing the number of the \[inaudible 00:08:00\] of firewall, but really it's to bring more focus on more strategic applications of those firewalls around more critical networks and -- and infrastructure assets where software solutions that are cloud-based might be limited, right? And these are --

**David Moulton**: Right.

**Carlos Rivera**: -- environments that are, you know, faced with highly restrictive networks, meaning they are completely cut off from the Internet. They -- they have to be something to self-contain or those environments that have something that is -- they need the flexibility, right? They need something that's going to be deployed in their environment that's flexible enough to meet the adaptable changes of the business needs and requirement. So, if it's something that can be deployed on prem as -- as -- as a hardware/software solution, but then later on if there -- if the plan is to migrate to the cloud and it can transition to that and make that transition more seamless, then that's something an organization will look at. And these enterprise firewall solutions are doing just that. They're adding that -- that capability to -- to kind of have that flexibility, but there's also environments that might need this solution to help them address initiatives that are on the environment that might be more limited in terms of \[inaudible 00:09:10\] architecture that have legacy component. And some of these modern tools just don't have that legacy support. Some -- most enterprise firewalls can still support that micro-segmentation strategy at the workload level for those kind of environments, right? So, for an organization that still wants to achieve that level of maturity, right, like I -- and I mentioned Microsoft mutation, but they are constrained with maybe a resource in terms of skill set, budgeting, time available to them. Then being able to leverage the life of an enterprise firewall that might already exist in their environment, that's something that's a benefit for the organization. So, because these are tools that already -- they already benefit from, you know, the next generation capability of a firewall, right? They've already have next generation capabilities, but they go beyond that by introducing new modern capability that can enable VTNA if you're looking -- if your organization's looking to enable that. And -- and -- and application aware with AI, right? You -- you're starting to leverage AI components with an \[inaudible 00:10:07\] firewall. It's going to help to monitor control traffic at the workload level.

**David Moulton**: Yes. Carlos, it's been quite a while since I've thought about micro-segmentation. I mean, we're talking probably five, six years ago since I talked to somebody like yourself that's an expert. I'm wondering what you would advise? How -- how should organizations rethink micro-segmentation within the Zero Trust model to maximize that security effectiveness that they're looking for?

**Carlos Rivera**: Yes. So, the -- I think the trick here is that what I'm trying not to do is tell everyone that there is one solution that is better than the other. What I'm -- what I typically try to articulate when I -- when I get questions such as you know, "What's the best practice for micro-segmentation?" In the past, organizations have typically struggled to implement micro-segmentation effectively. So, there are various levels of micro-segmentation that an enterprise can arguably achieve, and with our own research at Forrester, we call out those levels, but specifically health level or even micro-service level, we view that as it being more complex and difficult to implement. But organizations that actually pursued the micro-segmentation initiatives as the first initiative for their Zero Trust journey, they found it to be more complex, right? So, those same organizations either abandoned the -- the initiative or delayed the initiative to focus on other tasks and other activities. But now, organizations are beginning to revisit that conversation about micro-segmentation initiatives because they now have a better understanding, right? They learned from their mistake. But now they have to have an understanding about the approach. So, ultimately what organizations should really be doing when they begin that Zero Trust or micro-segmentation journey is identify where those critical assets are in their environment, and then actually assess what are the tools and technology, the controls they have already in place, that they can actually leverage to achieve a level of maturity that will be one, acceptable based on risk tolerance and even risk appetite. So, once they have that, then it becomes more of a matter of what is needed to get to that next level of maturity. And another thing I want to add is that while it, you know, there will be a need to have guidance for organizations, one of the biggest issues that I get in terms of client engagement is that now we're implementing market implementation, but we have firewalls. We have VPNA. We have micro-segmentation, specific tools and solutions in our environment. These are all various different enforcement points that have policies. So, this organization might not be thinking it now, but it's -- it might be worth exploring or having conversations internally about what should our guidance be about how we approach our policy rule sets throughout our architecture --

**David Moulton**: Yes.

**Carlos Rivera**: -- so that we have a better understanding of what's the most effective and efficient way of approaching rules as across our architecture from -- meaning the broader we are, the further out in our -- in our environment from the edge perimeter, that's going to be the broader policy. Then the closer we are getting to critical assets in our environment, that's where the more granular policy should exist. But it should not be conflicting with each other.

**David Moulton**: So, Carlos, anyone that's been paying attention for the last year or so knows that Palo Alto Networks has been a really strong proponent of this idea of security platformization or you know, unifying security capabilities into like a single AI driven platform. What are the key advantages of a unified security approach and how does it compare to the traditional best in class security model?

**Carlos Rivera**: I think the idea behind the unification of security controls is really just a simplified deployment and management of those security controls. So, you're actually starting to break down those silos that might have impeded any kind of collaborative discussions within your organizations with respect to, you know, security best practices, what types of controls are going to be needed and -- and how do you improve those outcomes and/or improve those operations? There's also that potential for coughing \[inaudible 00:14:03\] when you start exploring platformization or a -- a unified solution, you start reducing the number of licenses you need to procure, maintain and -- and -- and -- manage. But you're also reducing complexity within your infrastructure, within the security stack. So, it offers that ability to have a visibility and management of all these various different tools with a more centralized manner and that can actually lead to being more efficient and -- and having a more holistic security architecture. Security analysts can also aim to benefit from this in -- in an indirect way because it's improving incident response times because it's reducing that complexity and friction that they might experience when it comes to investigations and analytics. \[ Music \]

**David Moulton**: What challenges do organizations face when they're consolidating multiple security tools? And what do you tell them about overcoming those challenges?

**Carlos Rivera**: I think the biggest challenge is probably identifying where to consolidate. If you -- you find that there are various platforms out there and they can address or consolidate different areas of your own security stack, and they can, you know, whether it's focused on endpoint or if it's focused on networks, it's -- or a combination of the two, right? But it's really up to the organization to really decide where they need to be doing that consolidation and what platform fits their particular needs most appropriately. Your entire security stack will not be from a single platform. I think that's -- we want to make sure they understand. It's not like you're going to one single platform to address everything that you need. That might be true for maybe a startup organization or small, medium-sized businesses operating fully in the cloud. But for larger, more established enterprises that have maybe a -- a history or are already, you know, established legacy architecture, that's not going to be necessarily the case they're going have, but they're going be operating in a more heterogeneous type of environment. So, it's -- you've got to be more realistic, right? And a comprehensive \[inaudible 00:16:34\] architecture should be more of a mixture of platform and best of breed solutions that address the organization's specific needs and requirements. So, that was kind of another question I get sometimes too is like, does it make sense to do platform, or should I continue doing best of breed? And the answer for me is, there needs to be a balance of the -- of the two. I think in -- in a perfect world, you're going to find this platform, this -- this particular area, but there might be gaps. And what is the right best of breed solution that might be able to address that gap or, you know, address your specific situation or need? Maybe you have analysts or excuse me, maybe you have admins in your team that are more familiar with this particular tool because it -- it works best for their -- for the outcomes they -- they like to use it for but does that interoperate with the platform is the other thing you want to figure out, too. So, don't just fall into the idea that you have to have one platform, is what I'm saying. Just find the platform that consolidates what matters most to you and then offer interoperability with the rest of the Zero Trust ecosystem.

**David Moulton**: Carlos, I know you're going to be shocked to hear me ask you a question about AI and automation, but everyone's talking about this right now. I think it's a big deal in security. How are AI and machine learning playing a bigger role in security operations?

**Carlos Rivera**: And this is a -- this is a topic that comes up a lot actually, I think in -- in just -- not just in the context of enterprise firewalls, but more just broadly is your trust, right? And I think that the way we have been discussing this at Forrester is that there are two trains of thought, if you will, with respect to AI. First being that, "How can we leverage Zero Trust to secure AI?" Meaning in what manner can we apply the principles of Zero Trust to ensure that we're protecting those large language models and the AI engines that organizations utilizing to kind of maintain that integrity, confidentiality if -- within those AI applications. But also, on the second one is how can we leverage AI to improve Zero Trust? Now, the latter of that, number two, is where I would say you are already starting to see vendors help with this. And in the case of enterprise firewalls, this comes not only in the form of generative AI. Within the -- within the application like chat bots, but it's where the admins can ask the questions for more for clarification, kind of help with understanding and troubleshooting tasks. But it's also in the adaptive and machine learning capability that can help simplify policies, reduce shadow rules, response anomalies and really adjust policies based on the threat and so, with minimal human interaction aside from perhaps accepting those changes or adjusting those changes prior to committing them. So, and then from an incident response perspective, I think through the AI's, \[inaudible 00:19:17\] firewalls with IDI IFPS and some of the other advanced threat prevention functions can actually resolve incidents based on the severity and global threat, allowing analysts to really focus more on more complex and time invest in investigation. So, it's -- it's -- I think there was with AI machine learning within -- within the IDI and ITS and -- and in the other advanced threat prevention tools, they can address the more simple -- the standard, well-known threats that are out there without having to really bother the security analyst. And the security analyst is freed up to kind of focus on the more complex type of investigative issues.

**David Moulton**: So, you've talked about some of the advantages of AI broadly and I think within the firewall space. what are some of the things that organizations need to be cautious about when relying on those AI driven solutions?

**Carlos Rivera**: The thing is, is AI and machine learning, it's been around for quite some time now, right? It -- it's not -- they're not new per se. They're not emerging this -- during this era. I think the applications towards improving incident response and supervised admin activities are fairly new, right? The idea that a fully autonomous solution would be a viable tool for a lot of organizations to leverage, I still -- I -- I would still say that's aspirational today, right? Because I think there is still a level of trust, right, and confidence that needs to be gained before an autonomous solution can actually be deployed so freely in a production environment. So instead, I -- I would say it's best to become more familiar with how to use it, currently, which is one in support of supplemental capability. Being able to understand how it works and begin to enable it on those standard basic processes. So, once you're comfortable and happy, you can expand upon that application to other processes. And we as a society tend to kind of jump head first into new amazing things. We're not really truly --

**David Moulton**: Sure.

**Carlos Rivera**: -- building any kind of respect for that. You know, I know I -- I like to -- related to driving, right? I -- I love cars. I'm a huge car guy. And so, the way I learned was I learned in a manual transmission car, right? You want a car, you want the car, it's got -- it's got the convenience. It gets you to point A to point B. It's got all the latest bells and wheels on it. And usually, it'll all have to go with that automatic transmission. But I learned manual because with that size, it builds respect for the car. You have to learn the way it functions. You have to listen to it and you know, you -- you want to make sure it doesn't crash and burn, right, when you're behind the wheel. And in that same vein, I would say people need to test build a little bit more respect, get familiar, train yourself on it with AI before you jump in headfirst with it.

**David Moulton**: So, if I understand that right, in the AI world, to your car analogy, we don't want to burn the clutches up as we're --

**Carlos Rivera**: Yes.

**David Moulton**: -- learning how to use this. All right. Yes. I just got an EV that has one pedal driving, which is a whole other mind shift and there is no clutch and there's like the brake's there in case things happen. But kind of -- kind of a wild shift to -- to come back and respect --

**Carlos Rivera**: Yes.

**David Moulton**: -- a totally different model of -- of trying to drive her out. I love it. I love it. I -- I've got nothing but good things to say about the -- the Mach-E. It's a ton of fun to drive. So, we've talked about how AI can help, where to be cautious. Now, I want to pivot around and think about this from, you know, the attacker side. Carlos, as an analyst at Forrester, you're constantly evaluating emerging trends in cybersecurity. What do you think is the most overlooked cybersecurity trend that organizations should be paying more attention to now?

**Carlos Rivera**: From my perspective, at least, there's a lot of conversations that involve satellite security or really kind of just the negligence of network security. Maybe negligence is not the right word. I would say the overlooking of network security. So, part of what I'm actually trying to do accurately right now is I'm trying to come up with a new definition of modern network security. The reason behind that is because I think for a while, maybe five, ten years ago, we had this set definition of what network security means, right? Some might argue this is something of cyber security and it was on -- it was mostly on-prem. When you hear network security, you think hardware, physical hardware. But I feel like today the future has changed that. You know, we've moved into the cloud. A lot of our resources are no longer confined within the -- the safety net of our organization's architecture, right? It exists in multiple clouds. It exists in virtual environment. So, there's a definition of network security need to change to accommodate to that. And I -- my mindset is yes, because anything -- anywhere that packets flow, the packets traverse is part of network security and that would include cloud. Even though there is a different context within cloud security, you have cloud security and fundamentals about your resources there, but the path itself from a user existing remotely at home or in an office, and a resource that exists in the cloud, they're traversing various different paths to get to that resource. That's network security. So, I think what I'm trying to do, you know, I think what I think I -- I feel that maybe vendors maybe could do a -- a better job at is communicating what does network security mean today.

**David Moulton**: It makes me think that if we were to design security and naming structures of who's going to do what, today. Like if we started today, we'd have a very different set of language that we'd use rather than the language that we have. And it makes sense why we have it, but as you're talking about that, the idea of where the data is at and where it's flowing to, on some level doesn't really matter if it's quote-unquote" cloud or network." The end goal is still, "How do you make sure that that data is available? How do you make sure that it's protected right? Like the -- the -- the CIA triad comes back to the --

**Carlos Rivera**: Yes.

**David Moulton**: -- here rather than our engineering constructs.

**Carlos Rivera**: It's also taking into consideration the various different mediums, right? Because when you say network security, you immediately are drawn to wired and wireless, right? But it also includes 5G. And it also includes satellite security. I think we're starting to see satellite securing space systems and securing satellite communications becoming more and more common topics in discussions because we've seen it. With -- with satellite security and securing space systems, you're seeing the need for that because of recent incidents, right? You saw, you know, the Ukraine incidents. A lot of government powers are looking to leverage, you know, space systems as a new warfare. And disrupt a nation's ability to defend against themselves and to be self-sustained. We're relying on a lot of satellite communications for services, for public services, Internet being one of those. So, once you remove that, you're kind of up a creek without a paddle. We rely for communications and for insights and visibility. How are we securing these satellite communications? And that's going to be another, I would say, rising topic when it comes to discussion in cybersecurity.

**David Moulton**: Carlos, are there any recent security developments that have really personally surprised you?

**Carlos Rivera**: Recent security developments that have surprised me. I mean, we're seeing it kind of unfold now in terms of executive orders, you know, governments buying in and making more, or at least being more influential in how organizations and how the industry should approach cybersecurity and -- and -- and making our areas, our -- our networks more defense \[inaudible 00:27:24\]. That is to me -- it's not so much surprising as it is I would say it's a moment of surprise, I guess, because I do come from the government side and I know what the DOD has done in the past. And you know, they're always kind of ahead of the game, ahead of the curve when it comes to -- to those types of implementations. But now, it's kind of the influence. I think we're returning to this -- this -- this -- this new norm -- or the norm of we look to the government to set precedence on what we should do for cyber security, and seeing that unfold today or at least in this day and age, it's -- it's a bit of rewarding.

**David Moulton**: Carlos, organizations are rapidly adopting zero trust network access, so ZTNA and Secure Access Service edge or SASE to secure remote and hybrid workers. How do those technologies complement enterprise firewalls, and where do you see ZTNA and SASE evolving in the next five years?

**Carlos Rivera**: So, I think these are technologies and frameworks that really complement -- complement enterprise firewalls, because they become an extension of the scope in which an enterprise firewall can utilize beyond bare metal solutions, right? Additionally, you can still manage policies regardless if it is part of a SASE framework or you know, via -- via firewall as a service, or a virtualized or cloud instance, or even an on-prem hardware deployment. And because ZTNA is now being built into enterprise firewall solutions as an add-on capability, organizations that kind of want to get into the adoption of ZTNA, can already start beginning that journey by leveraging enterprise firewalls as an enforcement point that can be within the ZTNA architecture. And it allows for the DNA to be adopted, both in the remote and localized use cases. And over the -- I'd say over the next five years, it's hard to say where the market's going to be going. I -- I -- I feel like there is already so many new entrants into the space for, you know, ZD Sassy that it's going be so saturated. But I think it might evolve eventually where you're going to start seeing there's some a little bit of cannibalism, if that makes sense, where there's mergers and acquisitions occurring. I think the differentiation that's going have to be need is, you know, how effective are they in incorporating modern technologies and standards that will -- that could allow an organization to be more aligned with the trends and threats of today?

**David Moulton**: So, looking ahead, cybersecurity is definitely going to continue to rapidly evolve. What are your security predictions in the next five years?

**Carlos Rivera**: So, I think we're already kind of seeing them unfold right now, right? I think the -- the conversation around network security for on-prem. What I see in terms of prediction is that on-prem will continue to be a -- a growing need. There was a -- for a while there's been a push for cloud migration and that was the driving factor for cloud adoption. But the reality is that most organizations are going to be operating in a hybrid architecture, in a hybrid environment. So, if anything, I -- I'm going to start -- I'll -- I would start seeing a need to have these solutions, these modern solutions, be applicable to on-prem, right? And then you're going to -- you're kind of already seeing that unfold with some of the vendors who are adopting a universal version of the -- of the tool capability that was primarily cloud to kind of address those on-prem use cases. The other thing is that you're going to -- you're -- I -- I -- I foresee a strong growth in conversations about OT. I think that for most organizations I see have -- or I -- I think there's a -- a comfort level that we achieved in IT in terms of the conversations from best practices and what we should be doing and implementing, how we can leverage Zero Trust and the tools and technologies around it. But OT is an unaddressed issue, I would say. There's conversations about how can we apply Zero Trust? Can we apply Zero Trust in OT? What does Zero Trust in OT look like? You know, what are the best practices? Because there's a lot of different challenges and unique situations that need to be addressed in OT. So, I would first, I would just see a growth in tools and technologies that are addressing OT. I do see that AI is going to continue to ramp up its influence in the industry, right? You're kind of already seeing that where a lot of organizations are trying to, or at least vendors, are trying to come up with solutions that are going to be product making leverage to secure large language metals -- large language models. So, these are tools and technologies that are specific towards protecting those -- those assets. I think you've seen that with a couple of -- of vendors. They -- they call it AI firewall, but it's nebulous at best. But I think --

**David Moulton**: Sure.

**Carlos Rivera**: -- you're -- you're going to start seeing that kind of ramp up a bit more.

**David Moulton**: Carlos, thanks for such an awesome conversation today. I really appreciate you sharing your insights, your predictions and your -- your deep thoughts on this important topic of network security.

**Carlos Rivera**: That was -- it was great. I -- I enjoyed the conversation. I think this is something that's of importance, at least for me for sure. Network security, I think it's a big important conversation for me. And I want -- I think it -- the thing is, network security still matters. There's a lot of -- many doubt that it doesn't matter anymore with the push to cloud, things of that nature, but it -- network security continues to be of importance and relevance.

**David Moulton**: Absolutely. I think Palo Alto Networks might agree. \[ Music \] That's it for today. A huge thank you to Carlos Riviera for joining us and sharing his insights on security platformization, the evolution of enterprise firewalls, and the future of Zero Trust. Cybersecurity is constantly shifting, but one thing is clear. Organizations that take a strategic approach to unifying their security stack will be better equipped to handle today's threats and whatever comes next, whether it's leveraging AI for security operations, rethinking micro-segmentation, or ensuring your firewall strategies align with Zero Trust. Now is the time to assess where you stand and where you need to go. If you found today's conversation valuable, you might also enjoy, "Unlocking Cybersecurity ROI with Platformization." In that episode, we explored how security platformization is transforming enterprise security, reducing mean time to detect incidents by 72 days and driving a 4X ROI on cybersecurity investments. You can find that episode wherever you listen to podcasts. As always, please subscribe wherever you listen and leave us your review on Apple Podcast or Spotify. Your reviews and feedback really do help us understand what you want to hear about. I want to thank our Executive Producer Michael Heller, our content and production teams, which include Kenne Miller, Joe Bettencourt, and Virginia Tran. Elliot Peltzman edits the show and mixes the audio. We'll be back next week. Until then, stay secure, stay vigilant. Goodbye for now. \[ Music \]  
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